dedicated to the 144,000 Jewish men
who have been chosen by God to preach
the Good News of the Coming Kingdom of Christ.


THE BOOK Prophecy Theology Potpourri ABOUT/ Contact

 

A Mother & Son Talk

by
Robert E. Schoenle

Dedicated to my mother Marie (Dolly),
for her love and loyalty
throughout her lifetime.

“Messiah” is a Hebrew word.
“Christos” is a Greek word.
“Christ” is an English word.
All three of these words mean,
“The Anointed One.”

The Holy Bible is called the “Word of God” because it is a faithful record of everything God wanted man to know as a whole including those things that are evil and degenerate. The ori-ginal [autograph] was written by men inspired by the Holy Spirit, the third Personality of the Godhead. The Holy Bible is free from any error concerning the supernatural, science and history. The substance of the Holy Bible has been preserved for us and is complete! We are not to look for the writing or giving of any additional Scripture (Rom. 1:18-20; 15:4; 1 Cor. 2:12; 2 Tim. 3:16; Heb. 4:12; 2 Pet. 1:21; Rev. 22:18).

The “Word of God” advises us all to:
Search the Scriptures (Jn. 5:39, 46-47; Acts 17:10-12).
Study the Scriptures (Prov. 15:28; 1 Tim. 4:13; 2 Tim. 2:15).
Meditate upon the Scriptures (Ps. 119; 1 Tim. 4:15-16).

The Holy Bible.  Nothing More.  Nothing Less.  Nothing Else.

 Copyright    1999 by Robert E. Schoenle. All rights reserved.

All quoted Scripture is from The New Scofield Reference Bible.
Authorized King James Version
Copyright    1967 by Oxford University Press, Inc.

A Mother & Son Talk

by
Robert E. Schoenle

 
Son: Mom, I really need to talk to you!

Mom: About what?

Son: About what the Holy Bible has to say about the Lord Jesus, and the apostles, and Mary, and about Heaven and Hell.

Mom: What’s there to talk about? I’m Catholic!

Son: I know. But I’m not anymore.

Mom: What are you talking about? How can you not be Catholic anymore? You were born Catholic just like I was and everybody else in the family.

Son: But I have left the Catholic Church.

Mom: Don’t be silly. We are born Catholic and we will be Catholics until we die. Your brother Billy is a priest, for God’s sake, and my sister Josie is a nun. Who’s more Catholic than our family?

Son: I know mom but I left the Catholic Church last year. When I became a born-again Christian.

Mom: A born-again what?

Son: A born-again Christian (Jn. 3:3-8, 14-18).

Mom: Oh my God - you’ve joined a cult!

Son: No mom. I haven’t joined any cult. I simply believe that what the Lord Jesus did while on the cross at Calvary is enough to save me from all of my sins. And because of what He did for me, I now know that I am going to heaven (Rom. 3:24; 4:5; 5:1, 9; 8:34).

Mom: Don’t be ridiculous. No one knows for sure that they are going to heaven. In fact, you are guilty of the sin of being presumptuous for saying that. Even the Pope can’t say he’s going to heaven and be sure of it. The Church teaches that [“Church teaching is that I don’t know, at any given moment, what my eternal future will be. I can hope, pray, do my very best--but I still don’t know, Pope John Paul II doesn't know absolutely that he will go to heaven, nor does Mother Teresa of Calcutta . . .” New York’s John Cardinal O’Connor, The New York Times, February 1, 1990, pp. A1, B4].

Son: But mom - the Roman Catholic Church may teach that, but the Bible doesn't.

Mom: What do you mean the Bible doesn't teach that?

Son: Just what I said. The Bible teaches just the opposite. In fact, the apostle John wrote in his first letter that what he had written to believers, he had written so that the believers reading it would know that they had eternal life (1 Jn. 5:13). In other words, God wasn’t going to let people wonder or be unsure about whether they were going to heaven or not.

Mom: I never heard of such a thing.

Son: Mom, you know how you have always thought that the apostles were Italians?

Mom: Yeah.

Son: Well they weren’t. They were all Jewish!

Mom: Are you crazy? You did join a cult didn’t you?

Son: No mom. I have simply been reading and studying the Bible.

Mom: Then you should stop it! To say that all of the apostles were Jewish is ridiculous.

Son: But they were Jewish! Just like Mary, Jesus and Joseph.

Mom: I suppose you’re also going to tell me that Jesus wasn’t Catholic.

Son: That’s right mom. The Lord Jesus wasn’t a Roman Catholic!

Mom: I think you’ve gone crazy and you want to make me crazy too. I always said you read too much. Normal boys chased girls. But not you. You would only read.

Son: That’s the problem now. Not enough people read the Bible or study it! What they believe is what someone told them to believe. If you asked most people what they believe, they might be able to tell you, but they probably couldn’t tell you why they believe it. They were told some-thing by someone and without checking out what they were told, they believe it to be true. You could say they have faith, but it is a blind faith. Now that is what you could call crazy. But almost everyone is guilty of doing that.

Mom: It sounds like you're preaching to me!

Son: I’m just trying to explain to you that almost everything we’ve been taught by the Roman Catholic Church is not true!

Mom: Bite your tongue. What is the family going to say if they hear you talk like this. Your brother Bill and your aunt Josie will probably try to find an exorcist to bring the evil spirits out of you.

Son: Mom - did I tell you that I love you today?

Mom: No. I think you’re trying to drive me crazy.

Son: Mom, I love you with all of my heart. It’s because I love you that I’m telling you this. The bottom line is you either believe what the Bible clearly teaches and has to say or you believe what someone else has to say and teach. In your case, it’s the Roman Catholic Church. In my case, it’s the Bible.

Mom: I believe some of what the Bible says.

Son: That’s not good enough! You can’t pick and choose what you want to believe in the Bible and what you don’t want to believe that’s in it. It’s an all or nothing decision. Why do you think there are so many different Christian denominations?

Mom: Why?

Son: The reason why is that they don’t want to believe all of what the Bible has to say or teach either. Everybody wants to pick and choose what they like and ignore what they don’t like. Or they will take some obscure Bible verse and build a whole teaching around it that is absolutely contrary from what clear Bible verses have to say on the same subject. That is how new religions have been started that are supposedly Christian. It’s a joke.

Mom: It really sounds like you are preaching to me and I don’t like it. Don’t forget - I’m your mother.

Son: Mom - how can I explain stuff to you if you're going to get defensive all of the time.

Mom: I’m not being defensive! I’m willing to listen to you. Just don’t get preachy or give me a sermon.

Son: That’s all I ask of you mom, really. Now what if I told you that Mary had other kids after she gave birth to the Lord Jesus?

Mom: No way! She was a virgin all of her life. Everybody knows that.

Son: Mom, she had a lot of kids after the Lord Jesus was born. Joseph was the father of those kids. The Bible doesn't say how many daughters Mary had, or even give any of their names, but Mary’s four other sons are all named (Mt. 1:24-25; 12:46-47; 13:55-56; Mk. 3:31-32; 6:2-3; Lk. 8:19-20; Jn. 2:12; Acts 1:14; 1 Cor. 9:4-5; Gal. 1:19).

Mom: I never heard of such a thing.

Son: I know. Mary was an especially good woman. But she was still a woman. And, like all of us, she was a sinner who needed a Savior (Lk. 1:46-47).

Mom: That’s heresy - what you’re saying about Mary. You could be excommunicated from the Church for saying things like that.

Son: But it’s true! The Bible describes how Mary made a sacrifice for her sins after the Lord Jesus was born, just like all Jewish women were to do after they had a baby. The instructions of what women were to do about making a sin offering after having a baby, was given by God to Moses to write down in Leviticus 12:1-8. The reference to this offering being for sin or an atone-ment is made three times in this passage. In Luke’s Gospel, we find that Mary followed God’s instructions and made this sacrifice for her own sins (Lk. 2:22-24, 39).

Mom: I can’t believe it!

Son: Believe it. Because it’s true. God had it all written down and has preserved it in His HolyBible through all of these thousands of years. We just weren’t told or taught any of this stuff because then we would realize that the Roman Catholic Church is built on lies and deception and false teachings. Thank God for the Bible though.

Mom: But how can you trust the Bible so much?

Son: I look at it this way. If God is all-powerful and knows everything, what is the big deal for Him to reveal to mankind, what He would have mankind to know? And then to have what He would have mankind to know, written down by men He chose to do so. And then, be able to preserve what He had written to our very day. Preserving it so well, that there is no change, in the text or message, from when He originally had it written down. That is if He knows everything and is all-powerful.

Mom: Well - that sounds logical.

Son: Thank you, that’s because it is. The problem with people who say they believe in an all-powerful God who knows everything is that they then place limits on what He can do. That to me is illogical. But have you ever considered how remarkable the Holy Bible really is?

Mom: What do you mean?

Son: Well, if anyone seriously considered the Holy Bible and its content, they would have to conclude that it had to come from God, because there is no other way to account for it. What are the odds of any book being written by forty different men, from a wide range of backgrounds and cultures, in five different countries, using three different languages, over 4,000 years in time? Not only that, but the Bible says things about mankind in general and certain people in particular, that nobody would admit to willingly. The reason why, is because our basic instinct is to try and cover things up that don’t make us look good.

Mom: You know that you’re getting too deep for me don’t you?

Son: I know. But I can’t help it, because the Bible and everything about it is so awesome. Did you know that the science of archeology was begun by people whose goal was to prove the Bible wrong? They figured that if they could prove that certain people and places and events that only the Bible speaks of, never existed, that they then would make it impossible for anyone to believe the Bible. But guess what? All archeology has done is prove the Bible right about everything it has had to say on any topic or subject. The icing on the cake though, as to whether you can be-lieve the Bible to be true or not, is what it has had to say regarding future events. That’s a subject called Bible Prophecy.

Mom: Bible prophecy?

Son: Yep. Bible Prophecy. Did you know that no, so called holy book, of any of the many reli-gions in the past or present, has been willing to foretell the future? Only the Bible. In fact, a third of the Bible was about future events and people when it was written. Much of what was pro-phetic, when it was written, has already happened exactly as God said it would. What that means is those prophecies in the Bible that are yet to be fulfilled - will be fulfilled. No doubt about it. Bible Prophecy is so important, that the whole testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ depends upon it (Rev. 19:10b). On top of that, the Bible agrees with itself from Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 26:27. There is no contradiction to be found anywhere in the Bible! The only people who would disagree with that statement are those who cannot or will not allow the Bible to interpret itself or examine the evidence that supports the truth of it. They are completely closed-minded on the subject, because it disturbs the religious beliefs that they have become comfortable with. The truth of the matter is they get uptight, when challenged, because they prefer not to think about it. Since we live in a non-thinking society, you can see why people respond that way.

Mom: Are you accusing me of being closed-minded? Because I’m not!

Son: I know that mom. If you were closed-minded, you wouldn’t even be talking to me about any of this stuff.

Mom: That’s right. I may think you’re crazy and have to commit you to an asylum, but I’m always willing to listen.

Son: I’m glad because there’s a lot more to share with you.

Mom: Like what?

Son: Thank you for asking. The word “catholic”  means “universal.” What if I told you that the Catholic Church began about 300 years after the resurrection of the Lord Jesus? And that the Roman emperor, Constantine the Great, was the man who started it. Constantine the Great was, in fact, the first Pope!

Mom: Now I know for sure, you’re crazy. Peter was the first Pope. Everybody knows that.

Son: That’s what we have all been told, Mom. But it’s not true. Constantine the Great, the emperor of Rome, was the first pope and since it is a matter of history - that fact can be verified very easily. Constantine simply made Christianity the official new religion of the Roman Empire! The statues that the Romans had grown so used to worshiping remained - but they were renamed for Christian “saints.” Another fact, is that the title of “pope” is never mentioned in the Bible. And neither is the office of “pope.” Peter being the first Pope, is another joke. The truth of the
matter is that it is a fable. A fable that has been told so many times that people assume it is true.

Mom: I remember what you used to say about anyone who assumes. If you assume, you can make an ass out of you and me.

Son: That’s so old that everyone knows that one Mom.

Mom: Of course. That’s why I know it.

Son: Which makes the point. You don’t want to assume that anything is true without checking it out!

Mom: So is there anything else you want to shock me with? Or are you finished?

Son: What if I told you that there is no biblical support for the teaching of the place known as “Purgatory?”

Mom: Now what are you talking about? I’ve been paying money for years, to the Church, to help pray your father out of purgatory. God knows your father needs all the help he can get, considering the life he led.

Son: I know that’s what you’ve been told about purgatory. But it isn’t true. There is no such place as purgatory! It was a teaching someone thought up, to get money out of those who would believe it and be concerned for those they loved and who had died. But the truth is this, you will not find anything about purgatory in the sixty-six books that make up what is called the Canon of Scripture, the Holy Bible. The Roman Catholic Church had to add extra books called the Books of the Apocrypha, to their version of the Bible, in order to support the phony teaching of purga-tory (Unger’s Bible Dictionary). But the truth of the matter is that it was nothing but a money making scheme, that has paid off big time, for the Roman Catholic Church.

Mom: Don’t tell me that!

Son: I’m serious. The teaching of purgatory didn’t even begin until around the year 1438 A.D. Its been a total rip-off all of these years.

Mom: Do you know how I’ve sacrificed and gone without in order to pay the money to get your father out of there early? I’m really having a hard time with all that you have been telling me.

Son: I know Mom. But I’m telling you this because I love you. I can’t stand the thought of you being deceived any longer.

Mom: But I trust the Church. I was born into it. My mother and father had me baptized when I was a baby. I made my first communion and then my confirmation while a young girl. I got married in the Church by Father Louie. And might I remind you, it was Father Louie who spoke at your father’s funeral and said the “Mass” for him. So can you understand why I’m having such a hard time with this?

Son: Yes, I can Mom. I went through the same thing when I first started learning all of this stuff. Don’t forget - I did all of those things too.

Mom: What has Betty got to say about all of what you have been telling me? I suppose that you have told her the same things - haven’t you?

Son: Of course I have. At first she thought I was nuts. Then she thought that Satan had gotten hold of me and was trying to get to her through me. But during the last few weeks she has been checking out what I have been telling her. And now she doesn't think that I’m so nuts any more.

Mom: So she now believes what you believe?

Son: I wish. No, she doesn't believe what I believe. But I’m hoping and praying that as she checks out what I’ve been learning and sharing with her, that she will see that what I’ve been saying is true. I’m hoping and praying that she will trust the Lord Jesus as her Savior by faith alone and nothing else.

Mom: Well, I don’t know about that. I’ve always been told that you have to live a good life and do certain things in order to go to heaven. I’ve always trusted my priest.

Son: That’s another thing.

Mom: Another thing? What other thing?

Son: The Roman Catholic Church teaches that Christ has ordained certain men, to a ministerial priesthood, to perpetuate the sacrifice of the cross. But that is not true, according to the Bible. The Bible teaches that the Lord Jesus has ordained every believer to a holy and royal priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices, the praise of their lips and lives yielded to God (Rom. 12:1; Heb. 13:15; 1 Pet. 2:5-10). That is why there is no such thing as a clergy class and a layman class in biblical Christianity. And why we don’t need a human priest.

Mom: Really?

Son: Really! You also don’t have to do penance like you have done all of your life. Did you know that the word “penance” comes from the Latin word for “penalty.” Since the Lord Jesus paid the penalty, for all of the sins that had ever been committed and would ever be committed, we don’t need to do penance for our sins or pay a penalty for them.

Mom: You’re kidding!

Son: I’m dead serious. In Jerusalem, was the Temple, in which the Jewish people worshipped and made sacrifices to God for their sins. These sacrifices were according to the instructions that God had given Moses for the people of Israel to observe and follow. In this Temple was a thick curtain that separated two rooms. One of the rooms was called the “holy place” and the other was called the “holy of holies.” No one could enter the room called the “holy of holies” except the man designated as the high priest and he could only enter it once a year while celebrating the festival known as the “Feast of a Day of Atonement.” It was in the “holy of holies” that the high priest, while sprinkling the mercy seat of God with the blood of sacrificed animals, begged for the forgiveness of his sins and for the sins of the people of Israel before the LORD (Lev. 16; 23:26-32; Num. 29:7-11). Now this is why all of this is so important and relevant to us today. After, the Lord Jesus gave up His spirit, while on the cross at Calvary, the thick curtain that had divided the “holy place” from the “holy of holies,” was torn in half by God. From the top - down (Mt. 27:50-51; Mk. 15:37-38). God did this to signify that a new way was now open, for all believers, to be in His presence, no matter where they might be, with no other sacrifice or priesthood necessary except that of the Lord Jesus Himself (Heb. 9:1-8; 10:19-22).

Mom: I don’t understand.

Son: When the Lord Jesus gave up His spirit while on the cross, He opened the way for us to go directly to God the Father with our prayers and requests. We can all now just talk to God and confess our sins to Him anytime we want. No matter where we happen to be. He hears and sees everything and knows what each of us are thinking. So we don’t have to confess our sins to a human priest anymore!

Mom: But I always have!

Son: I know. But you don’t have to, if you are trusting the Lord Jesus as your personal Savior.

Mom: But I do trust Jesus as my Savior.

Son: But what else are you trusting in addition to the Lord Jesus?

Mom: My Church and the sacraments.

Son: That’s the problem! You aren’t trusting in the finished work of Christ, alone, for your salvation. You are trusting in something else in addition to what He did for you and that is the same mistake most people make. The Bible refers to them as “works.” All religions have them. These are things their followers are told they must do in order to have a shot at heaven. But the Bible teaches that we can only go to heaven by God’s grace. In other words, Heaven is a gift to bad people. It is not a reward for good people.

Mom: I never heard anyone say that before. It doesn’t sound right.

Son: That’s because it is the exact opposite of what all religions teach. Think about it. The Roman Catholic Church, along with every other religion in the world, past and present, all tell their followers they have to do this or they have to do that in order to go to their particular ver-sion of heaven. Their followers can never know if they’ve done enough though. They can only hope that they do. Then along come the apostles who tell us that the only way to Heaven is by trusting in what God has done for us and not in what we have done or might do or hope to do for Him. It’s a total flip-flop. The bottom line is that God does all of the giving and we do all of the receiving.

Mom: What do you mean?

Son: God the Father gave, the Lord Jesus Christ to us, to act as a substitute sinner for us so that the Lord Jesus could take upon Himself the judgment we deserved for our sins. What He requires from us is that we simply trust the Lord Jesus as our Savior. By doing that, we don’t have to pay the price for the things we have done in our lives that have offended God. The Lord Jesus already paid the price for us! That’s why people have called it the “Good News” of Jesus Christ. Is there any news that could be better? And we do it by faith alone with no works on our part (Rom. 4:5; 5:8; 2 Cor. 5:21; Eph. 2:8-9).

Mom: My head is swimming. So all I have to do is trust Jesus as my Savior and I will go to Heaven?

Son: That’s right. Just like the thief on the cross next to Him. All he did was believe and the Lord Jesus said that he, the thief, would be with Him, the Lord Jesus, in Paradise - that very day (Lk. 23:43).

Mom: I remember that story.

Son: Of course you do and so does everyone else. But what they don’t get is the point of it all. That thief on the cross was a very bad man. He was not only a thief but a malefactor (Lk. 23:33, 39). That means he probably was a murderer and had tried to overthrow the Roman government in addition to being a thief. But by trusting the Lord Jesus to be the Messiah, everything he had ever done was forgiven him. When he asked the Lord Jesus to remember him, when the Lord Jesus came into His kingdom, that indicated he had had a change of mind and was trusting the Lord Jesus to save him (Lk. 23:42). That guy didn’t have a chance to do anything or give any-thing in order to make it to Heaven. Isn’t that something?

Mom: Yes - it is.

Son: There is a reason why good people go to Hell and bad people go to Heaven (Lk. 18:9-14).

Mom: What reason?

Son: The reason why good people go to Hell, is that they don’t think they need a Savior. They think they can get to Heaven by doing good things and by trying to be good people. In other words - by their own efforts. On the other hand there are people, who know that no matter how hard they try, or what they might attempt to do or give, it won’t be enough to allow them to live with a perfect and holy God in Heaven. They are bad people and they know it. So when they hear that God has provided them with a perfect and holy Savior, whose name is Jesus Christ and who has taken upon Himself the judgment they know they deserve for their sins, they place their trust in Him. By faith alone. What I have been telling people is that if what the Lord Jesus did, while on the cross, isn’t enough to save me - then I am lost. Because there is nothing else that I can add to what He did to save me. If I try to add anything else to what He did, then I am saying that what He did was not enough and He needs me, to help Him save me. Anything else includes being baptized with water or repenting or joining a church or making Him Lord of my life or any other type of work that people have added to His finished work to ensure their salvation.

Mom: It sounds like you’re preaching to me again. But it’s okay.

Son: Thanks mom. I get worked up about it, because there are so many people who have been deceived into thinking that they are saved and they aren’t. And the reason why they aren’t saved is because someone has told them they have to do something in addition to what the Lord Jesus has done for them. So these people are engaged in a form of religion and they don’t even know it. That concerns me very much! There isn’t much you can say about the people who deliberately reject God and His Holy Bible and end up in Hell. But the person who dies thinking they are saved, and expect to open their eyes in Heaven and instead find themselves in Hell because they had been deceived by false teachings - I cry for.

Mom: So what do you want me to do?

Son: It’s not a matter of what I want you to do but a matter of what do you want to do. Every-body has to decide who or what they are going to trust. Do you want to trust your eternal soul on the teachings of an organization that contradicts the clear teachings in the Bible? Or do you want to trust your eternal soul on the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ as taught by the apostles?

Mom: You know it’s hard to breakaway from what you are so used to doing all of your life.

Son: I know that mom. It’s the same for everyone. We all grow up hearing and learning different things. And we all form our belief system on those things. I heard something a while back that was simple yet very profound. It was this: What we learn today, depends upon what we have learned in the past. Isn’t that heavy?

Mom: I’ll say. I think if this conversation gets any heavier I’m going to have a broken back.

Son: Very funny. But this is a very serious subject, to say the least, and that’s why I get so intense about it. The thought of being in Heaven without you breaks my heart.

Mom: Don’t worry about it.

Son: I don’t worry about it - but I am extremely concerned about it. That’s why I am trying so hard to make this whole thing clear to you. If I didn’t care - I wouldn’t share. With you or with anyone else. I know that I come on with too much stuff for a lot of people to absorb. But I can’t help it. I figure I only have one chance to tell them some of the stuff I’ve learned and that’s it. It’s possible they might not ever hear any of these things again.

Mom: You mean you’ve only told me some of the stuff you’ve learned? There’s more?

Son: Yeah - why?

Mom: Because you’ve told me so much already. That’s why.

Son: Don’t worry - I’m not going to load you up with anything more. You’ve been pretty good about listening to me about all of these things that I’ve been telling you about.

Mom: I have - haven’t I?

Son: Now you’re going to get cute. Aren’t you?

Mom: I’m always cute. Why do you think your father was crazy about me. He couldn’t help himself.

Son: You’re something else mom. That’s why I love you so much. So are you going to make a decision to trust the Lord Jesus for your salvation and not your Church or the sacraments and all the other stuff that you’ve been taught all of your life?

Mom: So how do I do that?

Son: By admitting what we all know about ourselves. You are a sinner who cannot do anything to help save yourself. Then tell the Lord Jesus that you are going to trust that what He did, is enough to wipe away all of the sins you have ever committed and will ever commit. You are going to trust Him and Him alone for your salvation. Nothing else. And you’re going to do it by faith alone. That’s how.

Mom: That’s it?

Son: Yep.

Mom: That seems too easy.

Son: So will you do it now?

Mom: Not so fast. I have to think about it. My head feels like it’s ready to explode. Besides, what would your brother Bill and my sister Josie say? They would think I went crazy like you.

Son: I know. And it really isn’t so easy to believe in what someone else has done for you - is it?

Mom: I guess not.

Son: That’s why most people prefer religion rather than true Christianity. They find it easier to follow a list of do’s and don’ts from some spiritual leader than to simply believe what God has told us through the writers of His Holy Bible. Churchianity is always more appealing to people than true Christianity!

Mom: Well, we will have to talk again. About all of this.

Son: That’s for sure! I love you, mom.

Mom: And I love you, son.

 



POTPOURRI


Introduction to Mother & Son Talks


A Mother & Son Talk


Another
Mother & Son Talk


The Last
Mother & Son Talk


Faithful
Unto Death


Reflections


News Stories


 

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